Badlands vs truelite vs aerolite

[amekler]

Looking at all 3
Any comments appreciated
Alan

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

Looking at all 3
Any comments appreciated
Alan

Hi Alan. To provide usable advice, we're going to need a bit more information from you.

What type of flying do you want to do - long hops between airports...more like cross-country?

Are you looking for something that fly's more like a Cessna or other light aircraft?

Is there a price range you're interested in staying in?

Also, are you looking at pre-built, partly built, or complete build it yourself?

How soon do you hope to be flying?

Since you've looked at these three, there are two more I would toss into the mix. The Legal Eagle and the Merlin Lite.

Todd C.

[Bruce_L]

Todd is right. You need to ask yourself, WHAT IS YOUR MISSION?

Once you figure that out, the decision is easy.

I went with a Badland because I wanted to be seated inside the plane when I fly. Don't want my feet and legs dangling out there.

Wanted to learn taildragger flight as well.

I also like the utility of the folding wings for transport/storage. This was very important.

I helped a buddy assemble a brand new aerolite 103 and its a nice plane. But its gonna take you around an hour and a half to take it apart to transport it. It takes 2 people to do that as well. Not the plane for repeated tear down and reassembly each time you want to fly.

The Badland is probably the best of the 3 if you plan on adding a ballistic recovery parachute to your airframe.

I did not make my airplane choice based on price.

[amekler]

thanks
I've built an rv-12. I enjoyed building but don't want another 1000 hr project. I'm looking to do local flying ( 1 hr or so)off grass runways and maybe my field.(600 feet) I live 2.5 miles from a grass runway. There is no hangar space available but with folding wings I might have an option. I could trail the plane to the airport.
Alan

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

thanks
I've built an rv-12. I enjoyed building but don't want another 1000 hr project. I'm looking to do local flying ( 1 hr or so)off grass runways and maybe my field.(600 feet) I live 2.5 miles from a grass runway. There is no hangar space available but with folding wings I might have an option. I could trail the plane to the airport.
Alan

Excellent, and I suppose for some, building a plane with a 1000hr project time is what they enjoy. I'm like you in that, I want to fly. Keeping the build short as possible, but still having some of my hand in the plane is my goal.

I can say that the Aerolite and Badland can accommodate 600 ft with some practice, 800 ft preferred but 600 will work. The other aircraft listed, I'm not sure about. No hanger space is the same problem I've run into here in Florida. The good though is, folding those wings and being only 15 miles from Keystone Heights airfield, I get to save that wonderfully affordable hanger fee Joking of course. It's really hard to believe how much many airfields charge for hanger space. All the planes listed will do great with local flying. I'm not a big fan of the Aerolite style of UL, but it has an excellent track record. Another plane I failed to mention is the Quick Silver. Here's a YT video with a Hirth F23 engine on it. The climb out is heart stopping

(

The pilot in the Quick Silver is in the messages posted for the video and answers questions about such a launch. Pretty amazing, not that I would do it, but he pulled an impressive climb rate with a 10 knot headwind. I choose the Badland because I want a cabin (and Chris does offer doors for his Badland aircraft). I want to do longer runs around Florida and further if possible. Of course, limited to 5 gallons of fuel, I'll have to do a lot of hops, but that's OK. Though a former motorcycle rider, I'm a bit tired of the wind in my face action, so a windshield is a certainty for me. The aluminum frame, soft fabric, and lawn chair type setup isn't for me. With UL's being draggy, I also want a UL that has a reasonable glide ratio. The Badland and by the look of it the two Merlin UL's have exceptional glide ratios. I'm not sure why, but my guess is that it's the more conventional wing compared to the Aerolite and Quicksilver.

Options, options, and more options there buddy. Lots of offerings to chose from. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what you like and might work for you.

Todd

[13brv3]

The Badland (Kitfox Lite variants) and Merlin Lite are probably the closest you can get to a "real" airplane and still be legal for part 103.

While I'm not a big fan of bugs in the teeth, I wouldn't mind having a Truelite with some sort of windscreen. That's probably the most compact and easily transportable UL there is. If I ever run across one used and cheaper than new, I'd be really tempted. I wonder how many they've sold though. I'd bet you wouldn't need both hands to count them.

Another aircraft you should consider is the Kolb Firefly. They're nice planes with a lot of history. They do fold, though not quite as easily as the swing back models. On the other hand, it takes up far less width when folded.

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

The Badland (Kitfox Lite variants) and Merlin Lite are probably the closest you can get to a "real" airplane and still be legal for part 103.

Yep, and one of the reasons I selected the Badland. Chris was in an interview while at Air Venture and said basically that.

While I'm not a big fan of bugs in the teeth, I wouldn't mind having a Truelite with some sort of windscreen. That's probably the most compact and easily transportable UL there is. If I ever run across one used and cheaper than new, I'd be really tempted. I wonder how many they've sold though. I'd bet you wouldn't need both hands to count them.

Talking with Chip a few years ago, he mentioned he was working on folding wings for the Merlin Lite. I had a funny feeling he was going to have trouble with that. The Merlin LIte was so close to being over weight that adding on more hardware to swing that wing out of the way was going to kill that project. I wonder if that's why he's now distributing the Truelite?

Another aircraft you should consider is the Kolb Firefly. They're nice planes with a lot of history. They do fold, though not quite as easily as the swing back models. On the other hand, it takes up far less width when folded.

That's another good suggestion. I've always thought that one of the biggest issues with the ultralight market is finding them. There are plenty of ultralights to choose from, if you can find them. I must have been looking for almost a year before I ran across Badland Aircraft.

Todd

[Ethylene]

The Avid Champion / Kitfox Lite / Belite / Badlands lineage are simply lesser powered, lighter weight, single seat AIRPLANES, sharing the characteristics of thier bigger siblings (Flyers and Kitfoxes). Moving from a 37 hp, 250 lbs EW, 500 lbs GW Legit 103 to a 65 hp, 400 lbs EW, 850 lbs GW E-A/B is easy-peasy (or up to a 100 hp, 700 lbs EW 1500 lbs GW I am told).

I don't know your goals, but look at how the chromoly cage protects its occupant, there is just something fundamentally wrong if any part of the pilot is making first contact with the ground or is inadequatly protected.

Just my $0.02.

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

The Avid Champion / Kitfox Lite / Belite / Badlands lineage are simply lesser powered, lighter weight, single seat AIRPLANES, sharing the characteristics of their bigger siblings (Flyers and Kitfoxes). Moving from a 37 hp, 250 lbs EW, 500 lbs GW Legit 103 to a 65 hp, 400 lbs EW, 850 lbs GW E-A/B is easy-peasy (or up to a 100 hp, 700 lbs EW 1500 lbs GW I am told).

I agree. I don't see ultralights as any lessor of an aircraft/airplane than any other.

The only deficiency that I see is in the training that is (or is not) available. I blame the lack of UL training on the FAA on the government level, and the EAA (and others) in the private sector. I mean, even PGP seems to be better promoted and supported by the FAA than ultralights. The PGP community is allowed to take passengers up (supposedly under the premise of promoting the sport and training PGP pilots). Hum, same thing that was done for UL's for a short time after twin UL's were banned, except PGP dual flight seems to be increasing. One of the reasons that I was given that PGP's were being allowed to use the dual occupant waiver is because they fly slower and have shorter range than UL's, therefore they are less dangerous. While they do fly slower and have less range, the use of that excuse is a load of baloney in my opinion. Falling from 50 feet in a UL or PGP is going to have the same exact results for the pilot and passenger in either aircraft. Considering that the FAA states its main goal is safety, it seems that not supporting/promoting UL training and providing a reasonable path to it is less safe, not more, again in my opinion.

Now, it may sound like I don't like or support PGP. That is far from the truth. I fully support both forms of flight. What I don't support is the lack of consistent and equal application of the rules. If PGP is under Part 103, then the same rules should apply to both types of aircraft, and this is obviously not the case.

The good as I've mentioned in other posts is that many more GA and above pilots are now seeing that yes, UL, PGP, anything that fly's with someone at the controls are truly aircraft. The funny part is that those that don't see PGP, UL's and others as aircraft are often the same type of pilot that I would shy away from going flying with. Arrogance has a tendency to end in disaster! Plus, we've all read about the 20+ year 7xx pilot who retired, downsized to a Cub or 182 and died on a recent flight. Respect for an aircraft and that it may fly different from the one we're accustomed to is an absolute necessity. Just because a pilot has flown a big bird, doesn't mean it's an automatic fit to fly a smaller one. Transition training does not exist just because. It exists because it is a necessity to maintain safe flying.

What I do enjoy hearing are the stories of commercial pilots that have retired or are near and are transitioning to UL's or PGP, and loving the open air and more seat of the pants flying. These pilots realize, it takes skill, no matter how big or small the aircraft is, and most of the time it's fun to go back to the Wright brothers style of flight.

All of this type of talk makes me want to take my travel trailer up to Minnesota to Chris's place and tell him, just tell me what to do and I'll build my kit! I'm so looking forward to assembly of my Badland F5, I'd do just about anything to help Chris and his team to get the kit done as soon as possible.

OK, so over my $.02 cents worth...$.02 1/2 cents maybe?