New Builder - BA 103 - F2 Kit

[Bruce_L]

I ordered my F2 kit in February 2022 and picked it up in March 2023. Had to wait to get a decent weather window to go get my kit since I did not want to be pulling a trailer with a new kit in the snow and ice of Iowa and Minnesota. Chris did a great job of building a robust shipping crate to protect my kit on a long road trip. I live in Mississippi so it was almost a 2400 mile round trip to get my kit home to my shop.

When I got home and opened up all the boxes, I was very impressed with the quality of everything included. I helped a friend put together an Aerolite 103 in November last year and was not impressed with the way his plane was shipped and packaged. Lots of details to complete assembly with no provided information.

For my kit, I had Chris add the F3 landing gear and larger wheel/tire combo since I may fly a bit off of some rough grass fields locally. The fuselage was powdercoated white and turned out great. I had the pleasure of seeing his shop where he creates these works of art and he had a jig/fixture for everything. He has really put in a ton of work up front to make this the best kit out there especially for the price.

I am going to fly with a new Hirth F23 , 50 hp opposed twin 2-stroke with a belt reduction. Have not decided on propeller size or manufacturer yet. I want to get my engine mounted and see what is my available clearance from prop centerline to ground while the plane sits on its gear, ready to roll. I know I will have a weight penalty for going to this engine, but really like the performance I will get from this powerplant.

I will have to fabricate my own engine mount and that will be a challenge for me. At least the engine has a lot of available locations for mounting bolts to make the motor mount work. This will be my first time working with AN hardware too. I am amazed at how strong such tiny bolts can be.

I am about to order my covering material. Oratex 600. I know its pricey but its time or money for me and I dont want to spend half a year priming and painting an airplane with limited painting skills on top of that. Plus the Oratex makes for a much lighter aircraft when finished covering. Its pretty much just like the same stuff we used to cover our stick built R/C models with. Heat shrinked.

I cant say enough how well this experience has started out for me. I am very impressed with the quality of my kit and all of the pieces and parts that are included with the basic kit.

Lets see if all those years of building silly balsa wood R/C models finally pays off??????

Now, its off to building.

I look forward to seeing what everyone else is up to.

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

I am going to fly with a new Hirth F23 , 50 hp opposed twin 2-stroke with a belt reduction. Have not decided on propeller size or manufacturer yet. I want to get my engine mounted and see what is my available clearance from prop centerline to ground while the plane sits on its gear, ready to roll. I know I will have a weight penalty for going to this engine, but really like the performance I will get from this powerplant.

WELCOME to the forum Bruce! I am so envious. That's for two reasons – for one, you have your kit, and two, you're going to use the F-23! I've got an F5 on order with Chris and also plan on using the F-23. I have all the docs on the engine and if taken care of it sounds like it's going to be a real performer. With the F5's weight savings from the Titanium frame, I hope to be able to get some big tires and do some UL STOL flights. By the time I get my kit I'll be living in Florida. I'm already imagining flying out to a few of the small islands just off the coastline. Plus, there's plenty of flat country in Florida for off field landings. You'll have to forgive me in advance. As you start building I'm most likely going to be asking a lot of questions when you get to your engine mounting. One of the many things I like about the F-23 is that it runs at a more conventional 4 stroke RPM than most 2 strokes. The power, the boxer style for better view over the front of the plane, are a couple more reasons I like it. It just strikes me as the engine for a UL. We do have a builder's log and can create one for you if you'd like. Just let me know and I'll get it set up for you. It can be set up so forum members can respond, or only forum admins can respond to your posts, your choice. Again welcome and I'm looking forward to hearing about your build.

Todd

[Bruce_L]

I orderded my F23 from Northwest UAV and it came in from Germany in under 6 weeks. Its a very well made engine going on appearance only. It took me a while to decide on what exhaust pipe configuration to select so I can run the pipes under the floorboard and facing the proper direction. Some F23 pipes are for pusher aircraft. It has a TBO of 1000 hrs. I did the math, 42 days of nonstop flying = 1008 flying hours. Thats a one hour flight, every single day, for 2 and 3/4 years. I dont even drive that much . At cruise speed, that is 60,000 statute miles of flight. Several times around the planet. Just gotta keep the oil and gas happy.

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

I orderded my F23 from Northwest UAV and it came in from Germany in under 6 weeks. Its a very well made engine going on appearance only. It took me a while to decide on what exhaust pipe configuration to select so I can run the pipes under the floorboard and facing the proper direction. Some F23 pipes are for pusher aircraft. It has a TBO of 1000 hrs. I did the math, 42 days of nonstop flying = 1008 flying hours. Thats a one hour flight, every single day, for 2 and 3/4 years. I dont even drive that much . At cruise speed, that is 60,000 statute miles of flight. Several times around the planet. Just gotta keep the oil and gas happy.

Got it from Germany in under 6 weeks! That's pretty amazing. I'm going to have to talk to them to see how close I can get to a single muffler design similar to how a Carbon Cub has, where the cylinders Y into a single muffler hung under the center of the engine. In reading the docs about the exhaust configuration, Hirth is pretty strict on what can be done. Yes they give some flexibility, but the notice in the docs stating that going outside of what they recommend will void the warranty, which would of course be a bad thing. I also was attracted to the F-23 because of the TBO. Plus I've read where some pilots have gone past the TBO, done a pre-inspection and still found cross-hatch honing marks in the cylinder walls. That's one tough engine. Hahaha, funny about going around the world – I was joking around about doing such a thing and asked Peer (LA F2 Flyer and co-founder/admin of the forum) that I would do it in my F5 as soon as he loaned me the money for the aircraft carrier for refueling over the ocean. He still hasn't coughed up the money I'm really interested in what you're able to get out of flight time, gallons per hour. You also might want to introduce yourself to Peer. He got one of the first Badland plans (also an F2) from Chris, so he's learned how to deal with build issues. Chris has a picture of Peer's F2 in its early stages of build.

Screenshot 2023-04-05 5.54.19 PM.png (230.43 KiB) Viewed 1825 times

Really nice half naked with Oratex yellow.

Todd

[LA F2 Flyer]

Welcome to the forum Bruce! Let me start by saying that the oil stains under my plane are NOT from the plane...at least I hope not!

And here I thought I had to travel far to pick up my fuselage - Los Angeles to Las Vegas, when Chris was still working from there.

I think you'll like working with the Oratex. Great stuff, easy to work with, and an impressive weight difference from the legacy material, from what I understand.

Like you, I also started with balsa wood - rubber powered and a bit of RC after that. My current next steps (aside from the finishing touches on my build once it stops raining) is further flight instruction and building a trailer to get me to the local desert.

I think I can speak for all of us when I say we are looking forward to your build on here! And I know Todd is hoping for a lot more info on that F23 engine mount you design. (You WILL post lots of pictures, I hope. We LOVE pictures.)

Happy building!

And Todd, the check for that aircraft carrier purchase is in the mail! haha

[Bruce_L]

Thanks for the welcome. I am getting my work area organized and ordering a few supplies. Today I ordered metric bolts for my engine mount for the Hirth twin. I am hoping I am done with metric hardware after this. Dont want to accidentally cross thread a fastener when mixing Standard and Metric in the build. I plan on posting pix of items that are what I call "problem solvers" where I had to figure something out. The tough one I anticipate is going to be the motor mount for the F23. I will definently tap into your experience using the Oratex product.

How should I go about creating a builders log here? I know I am currently here in introductions.

And BTW, the trip to Minnesota was a short one for me. I have ridden a motorcyle twice from Mississippi to LA. Went all the way up to Monterey on the PCH to catch a (USGP) Grand Prix Motorcycle race at the Laguna Seca racetrack. You should have some good flying outside of the city around Barstow or past Palm Springs I bet.

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

And Todd, the check for that aircraft carrier purchase is in the mail! haha

Great! Oh wait, that either means you've won the lottery and haven't told anyone, you're a professional thief and sold the multimillion dollar paintings you've lifted over the years, the aircraft carrier is model size similar to my first Porsche my friend purchased for me when I was a teenager, or the most logical - you're pulling my leg! Hum, me thinks the last one has the highest probability

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

How should I go about creating a builders log here? I know I am currently here in introductions.

And BTW, the trip to Minnesota was a short one for me. I have ridden a motorcyle twice from Mississippi to LA. Went all the way up to Monterey on the PCH to catch a (USGP) Grand Prix Motorcycle race at the Laguna Seca racetrack. You should have some good flying outside of the city around Barstow or past Palm Springs I bet.

Bruce, I'll get your builders log set up for you later today and send you the link. I see a big conversation coming about racing, motorcycles, and cars with Peer. He's got some great adventures.

[Bruce_L]

Thank you. I am glad I found this forum.

[LA F2 Flyer]

Thank you. I am glad I found this forum.

As are we! I wonder if we crossed paths at Laguna Seca? I've ridden my bike up there for a few Moto GP events through the years. I would camp in Big Sur and head up Sunday morning. I take it you are on a comfortable bike, racking up those kinds of miles.

As for places to fly, you are close on both accounts! I am actually looking at El Mirage Lakebed out in the Palmdale/Lancaster area. From what I've read, the lakebed is no stranger to PPGs and trikes.

As for the Palm Springs area, funny that you mention it, as that is where I recently re-started my flight training (KUDD - Bermuda Dunes) since my wife and I have a weekend place out there. I haven't really explored any possibilities further East, as I have a feeling that the notably high winds might be a deterrent.

I think the forum can certainly benefit from any "problem solver" posts for sure, but don't exclude questions, concerns, tips, tricks, you name it. Discussion tends to lead to new information, and that's always a plus.

Todd, you nailed it with the last guess...of course, it could also be a rubber check, and have a really good bounce!

[ksatter26]

My F3 kit is really an upgraded F2. I flew SWA from Dallas to Minneapolis and did a one-way 20' truck rental to Truman and thence to North Texas. So I got to meet Chris and see the great shop. I went with the Polini 303 as that's what Chris used. Nice tight little engine. I did use the 26HP Hirth in my MiniMAX 1103R and it also was a nice smooth engine. Also using Oratex 600. I sent Chris a check to include me in his bulk order (hopefully we'll get some sort of a discount). Going with the quarter-naked look. Chris says he has some PDF files with patterns that should be a nice help.

I hope to have mine completed by mid-late summer.

Welcome to the club.

[Bruce_L]

So have you started building your F3 kit?

You should have a really lightweight airplane when finished.

I like your kit delivery method better than mine.

[ksatter26]

I ordered my F3 kit on 9/27/21 and picked it up in Truman on 9/20/23 ... in the 20' Rental:

The kit is essentially very well done and the craftsmanship is great. However, Chris is constantly tuning and upgrading the parts and design and has some problems with some of his suppliers ... see my entries in the Build Log Section.

I'm retired with a 30' x 40' shop/hangar and this is my 4th A/C project ... (for a number of reasons ... including natural disasters, like Hurricane Katrina).

I try to do at least a couple of hours a day on the project ... much better now that the cold weather is over ... really difficult to heat that big steel building.

Good luck ...

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

That's another Badland pilot several of us have a lot of envy towards. Kurt has a really nice hanger several of us wish we had. His build is moving forward quickly despite some parts issues and cold weather blues. I like seeing each new post he makes, advancing bit by bit towards a completed aircraft. If you get a few minutes you might want to take a look at his build log (ksatter26 Build Log viewtopic.php?t=186). The picture of his instrument panel all lit up is really cool. Of course it's all good as we all build the Badland 103rd squadron.

Todd

[LA F2 Flyer]

That I am envious of his hangar is an understatement! I find myself ducking under spars to get from one end of the aircraft to the other, while trying not to hit the side view mirror of my Healey out of line or bark my shin on a motorcycle exhaust. haha

[CraigDowning]

Hello Bruce,
I was in Chris' shop the day before you picked up your kit and was very impressed with the way he had your kit crated up. I was there to put a down payment on an F2. I thought that I saw a Polini Thor engine with the materials. Anyway, I am very excited about my future build and would be interested in how your build progresses. Please continue to update us on in.

[LA F2 Flyer]

Craig, when do you expect to receive your kit and start the build? Looking forward to your posts of your build as well!

Unfortunately this forum didn't exist when I started my build, or I could have created a far more in-depth log. I had started a build log on another forum, but sort of neglected it when this forum came on line.

[CraigDowning]

I expect to have my kit in January of 2024. I did not include an engine or BRS as technology changes so fast that I expect changes on both before my kit is ready for those items. I am going with oratex as my skills as a painter are somewhat lacking. I like the 4 cylcle engine as an option but think that the added weight will put me over. I will be watching for your posts as part of the adventure of homebuilt aircraft.

[Bruce_L]

Yeah Craig, Chris did a great job with the crating. My trailer bounced for over 1200 miles from some pretty rough 2 lane roads I encountered on the trip home. When I opened the crate here, everything was secure and perfect. The Polini box you saw in the pile of my stuff was an older box Chris packed all my hardware in. The F2 upgrade is is a smart move, it will definently save you some time. I went crazy and also bought the Badland Aircraft seat cushion with the company logo on it. Guess I went all out on the bling factor. I can't say enough how well Chris handled the entire process from start to finish. You just have to be patient and trust you are getting a great start. The fuselage is impressive with all the tabs and mounting locations already drilled and ready to go. I hope to be far enough ahead of you in my build that I will be able to contribute some good bits to this forum. I like the idea of a 4-stroke too, but you got to play the weight game to stay inside Part 103 specs. You got a place to fly from picked out yet?

[CraigDowning]

Hey Bruce,
Sorry for not getting back here sooner. How is your build coming? I have not heard from Chris since I was there, but Im not concerned as he had 2 kits ahead of me and he needed to get one ready for Oshkosh in July. I am going to attend the experimental Aircraft show this year where I hope to see An F series fly. I have a strip at a nearby friends field that is 1/2 mile long where I intend to learn to fly my F2 and Im still not sure if I have the courage to fly it. Ill get it built first and worry about that later. Do you have any piloting training? I took ground school in the 90's and took several lessons before running out of money and last month purchased Sportys learn to fly course. I plan on getting some flight time at a nearby airport if I can find a tail dragger instructor. Looking forward to getting started on my plane.

[Bruce_L]

So my build has been put on hold as I am moving all my stuff to a new location. Basically was storing my plane remotely until I got my shop area at home ready. All I have done so far is applied polyurethane to the wood on the wings. We have a lot of humidity here in South Mississippi and dont need any warped ribs. My shop is not air conditioned so I should lose about 50-100 pounds as I work on it this summer. Who needs carbon fiber anyhow! Mostly figuring out my engine mount for the Hirth F23 twin. Already have my motor but not ordering my prop until I can measure available distance from prop tip to tarmac at a level airframe setting. Hope to have about 10-12 inches clearance. About to order an assortment of rubber vibration isolators and start laying out the design. There are motor mounting holes all over the F23 engine block so I have a lot of options to select from. I look forward to the day when we can all haul our finished planes to somewhere in the USA and have a BA103 gathering and finally get to meet everyone in our little community.

[Bruce_L]

As far as training goes, I have zero training but have found a local CFI that has a 172 and a Citabria. Did an orientation flight in a 150 many years ago and did good. I think the Citabria may help me build up some taildragger skills. My main weakness is that I dont have any muscle memory with dancing on the rudder pedals and the left hand throttle thingy is not like any motorcycle or stand-up jet ski I have ridden. I know the control stick effort from a citabria compared to a 103 is not going to be the same. I have a zillion hours flying anything R/C and do have a good understanding of how to stay out of stalls, spins etc... Wish there was a 2 seater ultralight trainer somewhere nearby so I can get some seat time . Gonna play it smart for sure,