Finding Plans

[Valykry]

I'm looking to build my first 103 Aircraft. I've done a lot of looking around, and plans for something I like seem hard to find.
I thought I found what I was after for a while. Ran across the B1-RD, and while I would prefer a push prop, it otherwise seemed to be what I want. The 15 mph stall speed was a real selling point.

But the site I found the plans for this on (buildandfly.shop) appears to be scammish. Only accepting payments through western union was the first red flag, and now I'm thinking they are either just trying to get my money and not sending anything, or they will send plans, but they were stolen.

Does anyone know of a legit source for obtaining plans for the B1-RD or similar? (STOL, 103 compliant, and the whole "go-kart with wings" look)
It seems everywhere I look merely talks about whatever craft the topic is about, but there are no links to plans/dealers or any method to obtain said craft one way or the other.

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

Hello Valykry, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We're in the middle of trying to design ultralight parts and very busy with ideas and planning all the process out.

I totally understand the issue with even finding an ultralight. It seems to me that there are many good designs, but those who design them need to either hire someone or do a better job of advertising. This goes along with the few CFI's that'll provide flight training. They are even more difficult to find. Both areas of UL seem to have the same problem - they are out there, but they do a terrible job of advertising. Most have websites, but the websites haven't been updated in years. Some that are no longer in business still have websites, so the impression is they are still in business. It drives me crazy sometimes trying to find what I want in the UL world. Don't give up though, keep searching and keep looking. Eventually you do run across the things you want or near enough to satisfy.

I've also looked at the buildandfly.shop website several times. I didn't realize they only allow western union. They are out of Russia, so that may possibly be the reason for the western union only money transfer. Remember, Russia is now off the SWIFT system, so they have no way of accepting electronic payment of any kind that would use SWIFT. However further digging I found that yes they will deliver the plans but there is absolutely no support or validation that the plans are correct. Moreover, the plans appear to be as you have surmised are typically stolen or purchased from someone not authorized to sell them to BuildandFly.Shop. I also found that their Internet rating of 0 to 100 for trust is around 55, not good. I would avoid them if at all possible.

I must say the performance and characteristics certainly make this plane desirable. That stall speed is amazingly low and an 8.5:1 glide ratio is pretty darn good for the high drag of typical ultralights.

They BildandFly.Shop may be your only choice to find the plans considering the plans were only available from 1982 to 1984. Unfortunately I don't know of any kits or plans for something that comes close to the flight envelope of the B1-RD. My only suggestion is to try and contact those UL enthousists that do reporting news. They may be able to point you to a builder that may be able to provide plans. I would at least try and contact Dan Johnson and see if he may be able to help you either find a B1-RD owner or at minimum help guide you to something similar (https://bydanjohnson.com/author/bydanjohnson/).

Following are also some other sites I've found - you may have already seen these. The first one though is dedicated to the B1-RD and the last post was Sep/2021, so not too long ago. At minimum you may be able to post on these websites and ask for anyone selling their plans. Some of the websites are pretty old, but as mentioned, you can at least post there and see if you can get a response.

https://groups.io/g/B1rd

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... r103-plane

Here's one on Barnstormers. com that was posted on the 13th of this month and is for sale!

https://www.barnstormers.com/category-2 ... -B1RD.html

I hope you find what you're looking for. Don't give up. I was looking for my UL for several years before I ran across the Badland Aircraft, and it's pretty close to exactly what I want. Now I'm just waiting in line to get my build kit. So don't give up!

Don't forget to let us know how you make out. We'd love to hear about you finding and building your B1-RD.

Todd
Badland-F5 Pilot

[Valykry]

Well, I haven't ran across a B1-RD yet. At least not one at both a reasonable price AND close enough for me to transport. But I DID find a quicksilver MX. Cheap ($2700), and only needs minor work (gotta replace the Dacron) with a Rotax 503 engine. It will do me until I find/build something I'm really after. At the very least, it'll allow me to get a closer look at how these things are built, enough that I should be able to design my own. Specifically, how to build it strong enough without getting too heavy.

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

That is Fantastic. It took several years for me to find what I wanted. I saw Chris Deuel (Badland Aircraft) on a YouTube video being asked about the type of plane he built and why he decided on that design. His comment was something like I wanted an ultralight that will fly and looks like a regular airplane. I looked it over and was hooked. I've been on the waiting list since last September for my kit. Hopefully my number will come up soon. I've spoken to Chris several times. Before the economy went south he was pushing out a plane a month and the waiting list had grown to well over a year. So don't give up on finding a B1-RD. I was totally amazed at the stall speed on that UL. The QuickSilver is a rock solid UL, and that price sounds good. Get that skin replaced and that Rotax checked out and you'll be good to go. I would like to get something so I could at least get up in the air, but I'm saving for the F5 from Chris (almost there) and then have to get the house fixed up for sale next year (retiring) and moving to Florida where family live. That all means that I've got to be patient and wait. Have you checked out Jon Croke of HomebuiltHelp on YouTube? He's building an Afordaplane step by step. Good place to learn a lot about building your own plane. I find it interesting that such a plane like a Badland F2 can come in at 234 Lbs (a friend and co-founder of this forum is building in California) and planes like what Jon are building on YouTube will come in at just under 254 Lbs. Chris's planes (the F1 through F4 frames are made of steel tubing, the F5 frame is made from titanium, it's 30 Lbs lighter than the F2)! I guess the Afordaplanes box aluminum is heavier just because of mass? Best guess at this point, but it does sometime look like voodoo magic to keep them under legal weight. After all it's about how long we can stay in the air, how far we can fly, and of course how much fun we can have. Glad you found something while waiting for that right B1-RD to show up. Let me know how the Quicksilver goes and post some pictures if you get a chance. Take care,

Todd
Badland F-5 Pilot

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

Did you find B1RD yet? I saw this on Barn Stormers.

https://www.barnstormers.com/listing_im ... id=1740143

You may have already seen it or it may be too far away. I thought it was a reasonable price, but does look like it need some work.

Todd

[LA F2 Flyer]

The site selling the B1-RD plans definitely sounds like a pirate operation. Likely they are the correct plans, but won't offer a serial number and may introduce legal issues to duplicate.

If you aren't familiar with them, and your main interest in a UL is a very low stall speed, check out the Bloop by Mike Sandlin. He has a few designs with all tech drawings available online, and they seem to be incredibly slow flyers. However, the build is a lot more involved than a B1-RD and the wings don;t remove or fold for storage. Just a thought - worth a look either way, as he's done some cool stuff.

[Badland103Admin]

I think you're absolutely correct on the site that has the plans being a pirate site. The legal issues are certainly a possibility. However, I think they would be very minor to nothing at all considering how long the B1-RD hasn't been produced. The trick would be to find out who (if anyone) still owns the plans. I seriously doubt that you would run into any issues building from their plans. It comes down to who would point to you and say you stole their plans? Though I don't condone the pirate site selling such plans, they are in a way providing a service where there is a need. I don't believe the B1-RD was actually a production UL, is that correct? If not, there most likely is no serial number for just plans. It's really a measure of what the chance of running into issues might be. From the limited research I did on the Internet (about two hours of searching and reading), I would honestly put that issue near zero. Now if you were looking at plans to something much more modern, that there's a good chance that there still is an active owner of plans, that would be a different story. Such as if I wanted plans for a KitFox Lite, that would be a big red flag considering that Dennis Kitfox is still alive and producing the full Kitfox. He doesn't own the plans anymore, I believe Belite owns the plans, and Badland Aircraft owns the jigs, well, that would certainly be a potential legal issue. So what I'm getting at is that this is a personal call. Truthfully if after doing a ton of research and not being able to find out if anyone owns the plans, I would go forward with it (document it all). You would have done your due diligence, and documented it.

I'll take a look at the Bloop (interesting name for a UL). I do want the low stall speed, but I also want a UL that looks and behaves more like a GL, and that happens to be the Badland F series. I saw a video of Chris on FB landing at Oshkosh. He did an almost perfect 3 point landing. That's rather unusual for a UL, even a tail draggier. He came in nice and slow, flared, and the plane just settled in for a moment on the cushion of air in ground effect, then touched down almost all three wheels at the same time. I really want a UL that'll act like a full size plane, take me into the back country and beaches, so I can camp, is enclosed, so I can fly in cold weather without freezing, folding wings for storage, yeah I want the works in a UL and the F5 kit Chris builds will do those things. It's going to be expensive, but I'm retiring next year and will have a lot of fun assembling the plane and flying around the country. I even charted out a full cross-country trip (Florida to California). It is possible to do in a UL. The airports are close enough to make it a few hundred miles a day. It would take about two weeks, if the weather and the plane cooperated. That of course won't happen, but who cares - as mentioned, I'll be retired and doing that trip would be way more fun than sitting at home watching TV.

Keep looking - hopefully you'll either find a B1-RD for sale at a reasonable price that you can either fix up or outright fly, or you'll find those plans. Just don't forget us here. I'd like to hear about your adventures in getting, building, and flying.

Take care,
Todd

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

How about this - have you ever heard of the Ulatrliaght airplane Workshop? I'm sure they hear of a lot of stories like yours, where you've found what you want but can't find 'ligit' owner plans. They may be able to help answer your questions about using plans that may not be from the source, because the source no longer exists.

https://www.ultralightairplaneworkshop.com/

Todd

[kopal213]

I'm looking to build my first 103 Aircraft. I've done a lot of looking around, and plans for something I like seem hard to find.
I thought I found what I was after for a while. Ran across the B1-RD, and while I would prefer a push prop, it otherwise seemed to be what I want. The 15 mph stall speed was a real selling point.

But the site I found the plans for this on (buildandfly.shop) appears to be scammish. Only accepting payments through western union was the first red flag, and now I'm thinking they are either just trying to get my money and not sending anything, or they will send plans, but they were stolen.

Does anyone know of a legit source for obtaining plans for the B1-RD or similar? (STOL, 103 compliant, and the whole "go-kart with wings" look)
It seems everywhere I look merely talks about whatever craft the topic is about, but there are no links to plans/dealers or any method to obtain said craft one way or the other.

It's crucial to be cautious when searching for aircraft plans online. Avoid sites that use questionable payment methods like the Western Union. Rather than searching on the internet, look for platforms that are reputable, like aviation forums, kit manufacturers, or aviation organizations. Prioritize safety, authenticity, and established resources to ensure you obtain legitimate plans for your desired aircraft model, like the B1-RD. thanks

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

I'm looking to build my first 103 Aircraft. I've done a lot of looking around, and plans for something I like seem hard to find.
I thought I found what I was after for a while. Ran across the B1-RD, and while I would prefer a push prop, it otherwise seemed to be what I want. The 15 mph stall speed was a real selling point.

But the site I found the plans for this on (buildandfly.shop) appears to be scammish. Only accepting payments through western union was the first red flag, and now I'm thinking they are either just trying to get my money and not sending anything, or they will send plans, but they were stolen.

Does anyone know of a legit source for obtaining plans for the B1-RD or similar? (STOL, 103 compliant, and the whole "go-kart with wings" look)
It seems everywhere I look merely talks about whatever craft the topic is about, but there are no links to plans/dealers or any method to obtain said craft one way or the other.

It's crucial to be cautious when searching for aircraft plans online. Avoid sites that use questionable payment methods like the Western Union. Rather than searching on the internet, look for platforms that are reputable, like aviation forums, kit manufacturers, or aviation organizations. Prioritize safety, authenticity, and established resources to ensure you obtain legitimate plans for your desired aircraft model, like the B1-RD. thanks

Very good advice. I found one that had a couple of plans I liked. It was a no though, the payment was to go to someone in Russia! If it looks like fraud, it most likely is. Similar to one that's been going around for over a year now, Hirth F23 engines for half the price. The pictures they use are right off of the Recpower.com website - stolen and used to separate the fools from their money. In fact, here's the website, it's sill up - https://ppgparamotor.com/hirth/23-hirth ... ction.html Imagine getting an F23 for $4650.00? Not on your life.

[LA F2 Flyer]

Thanks for the link on the Hirth F23, Todd! I just sent them my $4600.00 deposit.

They'll get the final $50 on delivery; I'm no sucker! haha

[Badland-F5 Pilot]

I did read of one guy that sent his money off, then posted he'd been waiting months for his engine. The roasting of him, asking how stupid he could be and what was he thinking he was going to get when he saw the price, well that was pretty large. Admittedly the sight looks legitimate. However, with just a little research there are posts all over about the site being fraudulent. Kind of scary that some people fall for this stuff. The old saying "If it sounds too good to be true, it most likely is." goes a long ways. The now $4650.00 poorer guy needed to spend the money on purchasing some common sense.

Todd