Badland Part 103 Pilots and Builders Forum

I got to speak to Chris today by phone. He was busy as usual but took the time to chat with me. He said he needed a break too as he'd skipped lunch while working on a build. My concern was that with Russia involved in their war against the Ukraine, I have a feeling that the price of Titanium is going to skyrocket soon. Some may not realize that Russia produces 40% of the titanium used in the world! Fun Fact: The CIA created shell companies to get Titanium for the SR-71 for The Skunk Works way back when Kelly Johnson was leading the team to build that awesome aircraft. Anyway the concern is that the price is going to go up, so instead of waiting until the build is very near to send in funding, I would be very willing to send in funds now. That would allow Chris to get the Titanium in house at possibly a lower cost. He came up with an even better idea. I'm not the only one he's building an F5 four. He's got other customers that are also wanting their own F5. If we can all buy in a combined bulk, that may reduce the cost even more. Chris has also been working on get very precise CNC cutting done which is in final works now. This means the tolerances for planes from Badland Aircraft will be exceptionally tight, producing an even stronger and more precision aircraft. So hopefully soon I'll have an announcement for the build date, and a few months later I'll have a build kit in my hands! I'm so looking forward to this plane and making it one of the baddest ultralights in the US.

Everything seems to be in limbo right now. Hope it all comes together for you soon.

I guess I would have to go with a 4130 framed fuselage. Mainly just due to being easy to repair. Damage does happen on occasion with a bush type aircraft. Order a new piece of 4130 and weld it in and carry on. I can weld 4130 as most local welders can. Even though the other is super strong and lightweight, repair can be a problem to repair locally. Considering the upfront expense, repairability, and access to materials, for my situation, 4130 is my only choice. All old A&P's were taught to weld 4130 as part of their education. But then, that's only my opinion.

Yes with the idiots messing up the economy not just here in the US but around the world I decided to call Chris. We talked for a bit while he was taking a break. Typically supply chains takes a few to around 6 months to feel the change. I'm hoping Chris can get the titanium before it gets to really crazy prices. It had already gone up last year, and now you and I know, it's going to do it again along with everything else. I went to the grocery store yesterday. I walked out with about four of those little plastic bags. I left over $150.00 with the store!

Agreed also that I'm taking a chance with the titanium frame and specialized welding skills needed if the frame needs repair. I certainly do not have those welding skills. I would much prefer having the less expensive 4130 too, but I want that extra weight savings.

If you can weld the 4130, that's all the better. That's also a concern for me with the titanium. What if I want to add something that's going to need a frame mount? I can't simply grab a steel plate and weld it on the titanium. However there are work arounds. Epoxies are so freaking strong today I may end up taking a 4130 tube, welding the plate or whatever it is I need to it and then using an epoxy bond to hold it to the titanium frame. Carbon fiber is also another option. Now that carbon fiber is available that does not need heat to cure, bonding it to the frame is also a possibility, plus it's light as all heck. Of course this would be with small fairly light weight items, not major structure or heavy items.

You're absolutely right though in that each person has to weigh the benefits to the drawbacks based on their situation, what their goals are and such.

There is also the opinion of what a "Bush" plane is used for. No plane is going to land on basketball size rocks or brushy strips without damage. And the average pilot isn't going to do it anyway. If you watch the bush plane videos such as Trent Palmer's or others, what they land on could be done in a Cessna as far as surface conditions. Length is another story. The STOL part is the most desired feature of most pilots who want a bush type plane. And most will never use or need that feature, but nice to have it, just in case. Pilot ability is 50% of the formula for off airport flying. And even the best still have mishaps on occasion. Bush planes are the new gold and being an ultralight is just icing on the cake!

Very true, and I'm far from the average pilot. Heck I'm not even a pilot anymore. Yes I can get a light plane off the ground (who can't?) and I'm fairly confident I can get it back down in one piece, but there's a great deal more to being a pilot and flight than just that. Considering the only thing I've flown were 152's and 182's and that was back in 1999, I even question the above statement. Though getting off the ground and back down in one piece tend to be really important, landing off field "real bush landing" isn't something I can do. I'd most likely destroy the plane and may not even survive. Maybe I'd be a bit better once I reach the average pilot skill set. Of course I'm hoping to go beyond that and become not just average, but a good pilot. My first CFI was in my opinion an excellent pilot. I saw him do things in several aircraft including the 152 and 182 (which are remarkably easy to fly) that would astound some and scare others. He didn't play around either. He was strict with me and one of my co-workers that pointed me into his direction for flight training. Flying is fun, but it's not easy to do correctly he'd say. I recall doing just some basic 8's and complaining about it being a pain when it wasn't a calm day. He'd snap back, "if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Do you want to fly or not?" I never got angry about his corrections. I knew he wanted his students to learn the right way to fly, and all about flying, not just enough to get in the air and back down. He would on almost all flights kill my throttle when I wasn't looking and ask "where you going to land". I'd take it all the way down to final on some dirt road or field, and he'd tell me, let's head back up. That is except one time. I had found a farmers narrow road (paved) but only about six foot wider than the rear gear (3ft on each side). As we continued down on final, I finally asked him, power up? He said, nope, land it. So I did - and scared the (#*$& out of me as we're rolling down this narrow road. Worse is it was up on a slight hill. Go off either side and it most likely wouldn't have been good. So I'm holding it on the road slowing down and he asks "so what would have made this really bad?" With my hands locked on the yoke (though it would do no good), feet firmly holding the plane on center, and my eyes straight ahead I said "the cow that was on our right side that we just passed". He laughed and told me to get us back in the air. Throttle up, up to rotate and off we went. I think I was getting a little lax with the emergency off field landing and he wasn't to give me a taste of what it would really be like. Once I had over shot my chosen landing spot. There was nothing but hills in front of me. He asked me, what are you going to do now? I must have had question marks appear above my head. He said "my plane", I let go and he flipped that 182 around with stall buzzer sounding and next thing I knew we were headed 180 degrees back to my chosen landing spot. We had a long discussion about energy management. He knew I was coming in too fast and still had plenty of energy to turn the plane around, even with the stall warning. I had about 45 hours in and he said, learn your weather and you'll be ready to test with the examiner. He put me in the 141 program shortly after our first few flights. I never got to test as soon after the FAA examiner, his student and an elderly pilot all died. The elderly pilot came in above the examiner and his student and took both planes down. The elderly pilot took a straight in approach and didn't have a radio, so didn't hear the call of the student turning final. Sad as I had met the examiner and he was a really nice person. Here's the story (sort of) there are conflicts with what this story discusses (https://planecrashmap.com/plane/nv/N19281/). Anyway, far off subject - I doubt I'll never need the full potential of STOL capability, but as you point out, it's nice to have it, just in case. As Walt (my first CFI) said, planes don't crash planes, people crash planes. Referring to your 50% of the formula statement. I agree, with the new gold standard, and ultralight it's just icing on the cake. After all - here's something that says it all about me.
Let's not go into how many dogs I've rescued. That's even a longer story!

You've got the right mindset so you'll do good.

Thanks Allen, I certainly hope so. I love to fly and want to do it right so I'll be able to do it for a long time.

Discussion, questions, responses for the Badland-F5 Pilot build.