Badland Part 103 Pilots and Builders Forum

I’ve been dreaming/scheming/planning about an ultralight aircraft for a few years, and I’d like to take a step back and solicit opinions from experienced UL pilots. I earned my PPL way back in 1976. SEL/VFR. I flew a lot right out of college as a Cessna employee and then went about 30 years completely inactive until I got involved with an RV-12 project. Easily got back in the saddle and put some hours on the RV until my kids left the nest, my wife hates any kind of flying, and so I decided to sell my interest. I’ve had a lifelong thing for aviation, and I keep longing to get back in the air. In the meantime I’ve retired and then developed a medical condition which makes a Class III medical unlikely. I really have nowhere in particular to go, rather just enjoying being in the sky, low and slow. So Part 103 sounds good. I really like the Merlin Lite but the folding wings make the Badlands #1 on my list. Now my reason for this post is to question whether this community finds local flying and the inability to make casual cross country trips satisfying after the initial excitement. Due to geography I’m about an hour drive to a suitable launch site. (12 miles to the nearest highway). Will I find the motivation to make that trip or will I find excuses to put it off? The local climate provides plenty of VFR days with the exception of frequent unfriendly winds. I get excited about cruising over the beautiful Central Oregon landscape, but I don’t want to make such a significant investment only to end up with a trailer queen that should have just remained a fantasy. Opinions please.

I was in the same situation as you are now. The first year will be great and you will fly often. Then the second year it will slack off a bit and you will find excuses to pass on flying. The Badland UL is a great UL, though a bit pricy. I've been in this game for almost 50 years and have seen many go through the same conflict. My advice is go the cheaper route first and then if it's something for you, then buy a little more expensive or upgrade model. Jumping in with both feet initially and getting the top of the line UL is good if money is no object. Getting most of your money back on a 20K-30K UL is tough to do in today's world. A lot easier to get rid of a 5K-8K UL than a high dollar one. For the most of us, it's a one time purchase for a top shelf UL.

Dobie, your story sounds a lot like mine. Taking lessons back in 1999, just about to test and moved to another city for employment. Started up again with a new CFI. The job changed, and the new job didn't allow for the expense of flying. I always thought I'd get back into it. Moving to Texas (another job) and having the funds to pay for flight training all over again I was struck down with a major medical issue. At that time there was no path to flying with the medical problem I have, and today, like you mention, I may be able to get my medical, but it would be difficult at the very best. UL was my alternative. At that time most UL's were lawn chairs connected to aluminum poles and zip on fabric. Their show flight duration and lack of closed cockpit wasn't appealing. Two years ago I saw Chris's Badland aircraft. That's what I wanted. While agreeing that Mountain Cats suggestions are good, I chose the shotgun route. Chris is currently building my Badland F5. Along with the plane, I've made a plan to make this as much of a success as possible. I'm now retired. I plan to move to Florida shortly living near relatives. Once there I'll be assembling my plane. I'm the owner and co-admin of this forum. The forum was started, so I could learn more about Badland aircraft and UL flight. I want to bring together Badland pilots to help with issues, encourage flight, and as the motto of this board says "Grow The Sport". I will become active in UL groups or clubs in Florida, possibly even starting up an EAA chapter when emphasis on UL's. Here are some other points to consider – over the last two years the technology has improved in engines for UL's. There are now several options for 4-cylinder engines. This improves reliability as well as flight time. Some UL's can stay up for 3 hours. While not being fast, a good amount of distance can be covered in that time. I made a comment on one of the forums that UL flight is more like motorcycle riding. It's fun to go ride a motorcycle around the back country roads, but it's even more fun to do it with several others. I see UL flight as being similar. If you are going to go flying by yourself and only by yourself, the enjoyment may wear off pretty quickly. My goal is to find a few friends, do some hops across country; do some overnight campouts. I sat down one night and did a cross-country flight plan from Florida clear out to Southern California. It is possible in an ultralight. It would take some time and a good plan (I would include a ground chase crew), but it is possible. Look at how many people, even kids that have flown their UL's to Oshkosh. So, go fly by yourself? Yes. Go fly with others? Most certainly. Check around, is there some grass area you can fly out of closer to home? Yes on the folding wings, that's one of the reasons I like the Badland as well. To the basics of it, it's only going to be what you want it to be. You'll only get out of it what you put into it. Since I've dumped a pretty big chunk of change on my Badland, I'm going to put forth the effort as best I can to make sure I get out of it everything I can out of what's left of my life. Your choice isn't an easy one. You may want to take a few trips to some UL manufacturers and see if you get an itch or not before putting down your cash on a plane. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Nice review, F-5.

Mountain Cat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 8:19 pm Nice review, F-5.

Same with yours sir – good advice.

It's a difficult choice, no doubt.

I have questioned my decision a few times. Then I see a YT video, and I'm hooked again. I've simply got to get into the air once again. One thing that reminds me why I'm doing this is from one of my favorite movies – Dead Poet's Society. Robin Williams is a teacher in a boys prep school. He has his students stand up on his desk and look down at the classroom. He explains, it's an entirely different prospective from up there. I remember from my flying in 1999, yes, being up there gave me an entirely different prospective of the world, a good one. The movie's lesson was "Carpe Diem" - Seize The Day. Live every day to the fullest. I'm working on doing just that.

Fla. is full of UL's and LSA's. It will be no problem finding "birds of a feather" to fly with. Here in WVa, things are limited and UL's are rare. However most UL's are hidden away in barns, garages, and flown out of yards, hayfields and such. But we are lucky that we are in G airspace with few regs to worry about. I have been lucky to fly many different GA aircraft. I can honestly say ultralights are the most fun that one can have without worrying about getting arrested. One will either love it or hate it, no middle ground. And most love it!

Dobie, your story sounds similar to mine in quite a few regards (with the exception of having never earned my PPL). I also have concerns about how much I might actually get to fly my UL, because my "flying spot" is also a little over an hour away. Winds here in Southern California are also a concern, and the desert location I chose (El Mirage lakebed) has the most favorable conditions either early in the morning or at dusk (from what I understand) so a day (or an hour) of flying really becomes a commitment.

I also want to just buzz around without a destination in mind. The goal is to just get up in the air.

Like you, the question of whether I would be motivated to make the trip was a factor. But I also considered the fact that I very much enjoy a project, and building an aircraft was a first for me. At the end of the day, even if it ended up being more about building than flying, I decided it was still worth it. I very much enjoy flying, and have recently resumed my flight instruction. When the mood strikes, I book a lesson and get up there amongst the angels and clouds.

I am will to bet that I won't be flying as often as I thought I would when I bought the kit (thanks to all of the factors listed above), but I know that on the occasion that the bug bites me again, I'll load up the trailer and put in the effort. And even if it's a somewhat rare occasion, in my opinion it will still make the expense worth it.

I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I hope it gives you a few things to consider.

Peer is correct. I retired in 2008 and moved to North Texas (family) and finished my MiniMAX 1103R project in a 2 car garage. Little did I know that the hardest part of the build was finding hangar space anywhere. I finally located space in a huge hangar across the county almost an hour (with traffic even more). I was granted the $200/mo hangar space ONLY because the small, low-wing MiniMAX would fit under the wings of any of the TWELVE other A/C. To taxi test and fly I often needed to move 3 or 4 /C by myself just to get the beast out of the hangar. I'd spend almost as much time just moving A/C as testing.

North Texas is pretty windy, so we need to fly early morning or late evening. I even had the beast flip over (rebuild one wing and vertical stab) when I got out to open the hangar. Somewhat discouraged, I donated the A/C to the local NPR station (nice tax write-off). It was purchased by a guy in MN who had plans to convert it to a tricycle gear. Haven't heard back from him.

I then started a folding-wing version of the 2-place, all-metal (1st such project) Zenith 701. Once again in a 2-car garage. I eventually (2013) found a suitable lot (with 700' grass strip) where I built a small new home complete with 30'x 40' hangar/shop. With the 701 almost completed I pretty much lost my medical. I still have a SEL PPL rating, though medicals every 6 months took me out of that kind of flying so I latched onto the Badland F3 project.

Moral: BEFORE you start your project research flying fields, hangar space, and some flight instruction.

LA F2 Flyer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:53 am But I also considered the fact that I very much enjoy a project, and building an aircraft was a first for me. At the end of the day, even if it ended up being more about building than flying, I decided it was still worth it. I very much enjoy flying, and have recently resumed my flight instruction. When the mood strikes, I book a lesson and get up there amongst the angels and clouds.

Excellent point. I love the build part of the entire adventure as well.

Todd

Thanks for the feedback. I now realize something I had given only a little thought to should be my numero uno consideration, and that is looking into local clubs or groups with whom to fly and share other activities. I think on my own I might fall into the trap of finding excuses not to go flying for whatever reason. I think a group of like minded folks would be more likely to encourage regular outings and activities, as well as supporting each other with maintenance issues, exploring new landing sites, and just generally socializing. EAA has no ultralight chapters in Oregon, and I don’t do Facebook, so I’ll have to do some thinking about how I might connect with other UL flyers.

Dobie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:57 pm Thanks for the feedback. I now realize something I had given only a little thought to should be my numero uno consideration, and that is looking into local clubs or groups with whom to fly and share other activities. I think on my own I might fall into the trap of finding excuses not to go flying for whatever reason. I think a group of like minded folks would be more likely to encourage regular outings and activities, as well as supporting each other with maintenance issues, exploring new landing sites, and just generally socializing. EAA has no ultralight chapters in Oregon, and I don’t do Facebook, so I’ll have to do some thinking about how I might connect with other UL flyers.

Sounds like a good direction to go Dobie. I am surprised that with the accelerated growth of ultralights that there are so few groups. Even in Florida (pretty much ultralight capital of the world) there's not one EAA ultralight chapter. I plan to change that if at all possible! I envy you being in Oregon. I'm thinking there may be some really nice scenery to go flying in.

Todd

One can go onto the United States Ultralight Assoc.org website and get a list of UL clubs in your state. I've been a member for many years. I don't do EAA, but the USUA is more my kind of flying. Plus, if you are a member of USUA, you have access to the club insurance which is reasonable cost.

Mountain Cat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:52 pm One can go onto the United States Ultralight Assoc.org website and get a list of UL clubs in your state. I've been a member for many years. I don't do EAA, but the USUA is more my kind of flying. Plus, if you are a member of USUA, you have access to the club insurance which is reasonable cost.

I'm glad you said something. My USUA membership is up for renewal next month!

Todd

So is mine!

Mountain Cat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:52 pm One can go onto the United States Ultralight Assoc.org website and get a list of UL clubs in your state. I've been a member for many years. I don't do EAA, but the USUA is more my kind of flying. Plus, if you are a member of USUA, you have access to the club insurance which is reasonable cost.

The USUA website provides little info. Do I need to join to find that list of local clubs?

Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 10:04 pm

Mountain Cat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:52 pm One can go onto the United States Ultralight Assoc.org website and get a list of UL clubs in your state. I've been a member for many years. I don't do EAA, but the USUA is more my kind of flying. Plus, if you are a member of USUA, you have access to the club insurance which is reasonable cost.

The USUA website provides little info. Do I need to join to find that list of local clubs?

I'm not sure why but getting to some of their information is difficult. Here's the link directly to the list of clubs.

https://www.usua.org/Clubs/clubs.htm

The other benefits can be found here from Google.

https://www.google.com/search?q=united+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

Hope that helps.

Todd