Badland Part 103 Pilots and Builders Forum

Hello and thanks for the invite. A little background on me I have always been in love with flight even as a kid, used to bum rides at the local airport when ever possible. As a motorcycle enthusiast I recently opened my own powersports repair facility 2 years ago and doing great. I've been flying rc planes for the last 25 years because
I have never been able to afford to get a pilots license and that has scratched the itch for me for a long time, recently one of my customers Brought his KZ900 in for some work and after it was back up and going better than new he invited me to come to the airport and go flying with him and of course I could not refuse..... He let me fly his 1970 Citabria around for just over an hour WHAT A TREAT!!!! I just can't get rid of the flying bug and since my business is doing well I feel my time has come to get myself in the air. After looking at hanger fees and storage, licencing costs. The Badlands Aircraft maybe the choice for me in 103 form.

Welcome to the forum. It seems like many of us UL pilots are into motorcycles. I started with a Kawasaki 90 when I was 13. I ended with a 96 or 98 Honda Valkyrie which I donated for charity many years ago. The Valk was a joy to ride, especially with friends, but cagers tried to run me over one too many times. I ended up giving that up. I always enjoyed flying but medical and cost prevent me from getting my private pilots license. UL looked to be the way to go, and Badland Aircraft fight the bill as well. I'm waiting for my kit from Chris Deuel, and hopefully will be assembling my kit later this year. We have a lot of members here. Several have kits completed or near completion. Please feel free to ask questions, and we're glad you joined the forum

Todd

Thanks, I am currently looking at the F5 and would love to get engine opinions flight instrument options, and any other tips and tricks anyone has to give I would like to stay 103 legal and i have a 30 x 40 garage that I can build / hanger this in and possible access to the field next door for a runway option as i live out in the country and there's not many houses around me.

Stormin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 1:59 pm Thanks, I am currently looking at the F5 and would love to get engine opinions flight instrument options, and any other tips and tricks anyone has to give I would like to stay 103 legal and i have a 30 x 40 garage that I can build / hanger this in and possible access to the field next door for a runway option as i live out in the country and there's not many houses around me.

I have an F5 on order. I've looked at many engines. The Hirth F23 two stroke 2 cylinder boxer is one of my favorites. I also like the Thump Air 4 stroke. Plus to the F23 has 1000 hours TBO, meaning most likely never needing to be rebuilt, or maybe just once. The Thump Air is currently 300 hours TBO, shorter than I would like. However, the Thump Air is also around $4k less expensive. Though the Thump Air is down 10 to 15 HP from the F23, from Chris and Scott (Scott makes the Thump Air engine), the torque from it is amazing.
Scott told me a 45 HP version is in the works, which puts the Thump Air just 5 HP shy of the F23's 50 HP. Right now I am dancing between the two, but leaning towards the Thump Air.

Todd

Thanks Todd for the info. I will definitely check all options and weigh all pros and cons. If im going to make the jump into ultralights the cost of the f5 doesn't scare me and extra cost and longer life on an engine sounds like a win on my end too. Im all about safety when my butt is on the line to minimize risk. Thinking about the chute options as well.

Stormin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:50 pm Thanks Todd for the info. I will definitely check all options and weigh all pros and cons. If im going to make the jump into ultralights the cost of the f5 doesn't scare me and extra cost and longer life on an engine sounds like a win on my end too. Im all about safety when my butt is on the line to minimize risk. Thinking about the chute options as well.

Happy to help. Funny as the F5 when I first started looking at it was in the $32K area, then covid along with the economy crashing, and now the recent inflation, the price has gone way up. However, I'm just shy of 61 and retired, so what else am I going to use my retirement for? I can't take it with me. Plus, I was born at Beale AFB in Northern California, which was the home of the SR-71. I thought it would be cool to be born on the AFB with the fastest titanium plane ever made, and then buying a Badland F5 and flying the slowest production titanium plane ever made!

I like the 4 stroke for the reliability. Though two strokes if taken care of are very reliable, I also like the lower fuel consumption of a 4 stroke. Since Scott is trying to get the Thump Air to 45 HP, I think it'll do the trick. I want to do some very long distance flights. Since we can only load up with 5 gallons of fuel, the Thump Air seems to be the way I need to go. I like the configuration of the boxer engine and think it would make for a great looking Badland with a cylinder sticking out from both sides of the cowl.

Here's something else you may wish to look at - This is a Smart Carb 2, a high performance replacement carburetor. It's simple, which is something most pilots like. Simple works and rarely breaks. This carb also is noted to provide 8~10% more power and 25%~30% fuel economy. Another bonus of the carb is that it auto adjusts the fuel mixture for altitude and temperature. Sounds too good to be true? I thought so too, so I started watching videos on YouTube of users of the carb. Not one bad remark, not one. The carb is typically used on dirt motorcycles, but some PPG's are now using it, and I read of a UL running an F23 that was using two with no issues. So, check that out. No matter if I get the F23 or the Thump Air, I intend to purchase the SC2 carb for my F5.

I'm still researching a ground adjustable prop for my F5. I plan to go full STOL with it, but also need to go long cross-country flights. The only way to do that is to swap the prop for the correct pitch needed. Once I get further down the road on this, I'll post something here on the forum. The technology we have today is amazing and will take our UL's further than they have ever been able to go.

Todd

All sounds great will check out the carbs and look more into the 4 stroke.... Does make sense for more fuel economy, again weigh the odds. I will definitely get a list of items together and make a decision soon its sad that the lead time is soooooooo long but it will help me get a couple of my other projects out of the way before I start on this one. Thanks again for all the great information.

Glad to help. I hope to get my F5 soon and will be posting the build here, so you'll get to see all the fun of assembly!

Todd

NICE

Hey Stormin, and welcome to the group. Like you, I am also a motorcycle enthusiast looking to add another dimension to my direction of travel. I have a nearly completed F-2, which I am about to start taxi testing (if the weather here in Los Angeles ever decides to cooperate).

I look forward to you starting a build and posting about it. In the meantime, please chime in with questions, opinions, thoughts, whatever...

Also, give us an idea what your mission is. For me, it'll just be buzzing the patch out in the local desert. I don't necessarily want to go anywhere; I just wanna fly. haha

Nice LA, I don't know what I will be putting together as of yet im just gathering info for my adventure.... As far as flying in Virginia there are several grass strips around here mostly for LS air craft and none of them have a tower there all private owned but the flying community here doesn't mind you visiting their grass strip, due to the local airport traffic / security / and you cant just land there and hang out unless you know some one. So id be mostly just flying around for my enjoyment and keeping my plane in perfect condition on the off days. If you have some pics of your plane id love to see them and good luck with getting it ready to soar.

It sounds like your mission is very similar to mine. Keep us all updated as you work towards it!

Here are a couple of shots of my UL which I just pulled off my computer. There are probably more in my posts somewhere. The cowl will have to change since I upgraded the power unit...

LA F2 Flyer wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:38 am
Here are a couple of shots of my UL which I just pulled off my computer. There are probably more in my posts somewhere. The cowl will have to change since I upgraded the power unit...

I love the look of the Yellow! Keep up the great work!

Thanks! As a huge fan of the J3 Cub I went with the tribute color.

NICE I love it

After much decision and kicking this whole thing around by the time I decide to pull the trigger on the F5 it will probably go up another 10 k it has already went up 5k since I joined and add that to the wait time for a kit, and no one within a 3 hour drive of me is willing to give instruction on this plane. I've even talked to several eaa members and 1 ultralight pilot in my area.... Probably the only one. I may have to abandon this idea and just buy a kitfox kit for the same money i just have to get my sport pilot license. Which opens the door for longer range i can cary a passenger and the wait list is not as long currently. I still can keep it in my 30x40 garage and make use of my runway access. As the builder I still can do all maintenance and repair. I can get instruction for a kitfox in my area as there are a handful of ppl that have them in my area and the local instructor is willing to teach in a kitfox so I may have to pursue that avenue. A lot of leg work just to find all this information but necessary for the cause so I thank everyone for all the help and Information.

Stormin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 4:05 pm After much decision and kicking this whole thing around by the time I decide to pull the trigger on the F5 it will probably go up another 10 k it has already went up 5k since I joined and add that to the wait time for a kit, and no one within a 3 hour drive of me is willing to give instruction on this plane. I've even talked to several eaa members and 1 ultralight pilot in my area.... Probably the only one. I may have to abandon this idea and just buy a kitfox kit for the same money i just have to get my sport pilot license. Which opens the door for longer range i can cary a passenger and the wait list is not as long currently. I still can keep it in my 30x40 garage and make use of my runway access. As the builder I still can do all maintenance and repair. I can get instruction for a kitfox in my area as there are a handful of ppl that have them in my area and the local instructor is willing to teach in a kitfox so I may have to pursue that avenue. A lot of leg work just to find all this information but necessary for the cause so I thank everyone for all the help and Information.

The Titanium frame is certainly not a cheap option. I would love to go the sport route, but my medical issues would put an end to that rather quickly. The FAR is pretty clear on this. If a prospective or past pilot has knowledge he/she may have medical issues which could prevent the issuance of a general aviation pilot's license, using the sport route which does not have a medical is not allowed. I fall into that category. I could fight through and get my medical, but the expense and medical testing requirements to gain and maintain it are too high for me. Remember though that you can work on your experimental rated Kitfox, but there are limitations to this, especially in working on the power plant and making changes to the aircraft in general. An example of the latter is, you decide to change the brakes (another manufacturer) on your Kitfox. You can do this. However, you are no longer allowed to carry a passenger until you've submitted and have received approval from the FAA for the change. This includes complete testing procedures and submitting the results to the FAA. Then you have to wait for the approval bureaucracy to run its course (anywhere from 1 month to 6 months, and possibly more). Not to change your mind, but you seem to be very diligent in your research, so I want to make sure you're aware of the above concerning modifications to your Kitfox. I would love to have a Kitfox, but it's simply not in my cards

Im not one to make a lot of mods to my setup once I get it up and going. I own my own powersports repair facility and rebuild engines on a weekly basis. BRP/ Rotax master tech I wouldn't have any problem with any repairs / maintenance on any engine at all I have worked on a large variety of powersports throughout the years and the dirt bike engines hung on the front of these planes aren't any different. The kit fox can handle a variety of engines and to repair or maintain is no different than following the manual for any other thing i have worked on. As far as the medical id have to go see if i can get that done first thing to make sure im good there Im not a big go to the doctor fan but might as well see what they say first.

Stormin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:19 pm Im not one to make a lot of mods to my setup once I get it up and going. I own my own powersports repair facility and rebuild engines on a weekly basis. BRP/ Rotax master tech I wouldn't have any problem with any repairs / maintenance on any engine at all I have worked on a large variety of powersports throughout the years and the dirt bike engines hung on the front of these planes aren't any different. The kit fox can handle a variety of engines and to repair or maintain is no different than following the manual for any other thing i have worked on. As far as the medical id have to go see if i can get that done first thing to make sure im good there Im not a big go to the doctor fan but might as well see what they say first.

Gottcha, and if I were in your shoes, I would go the KitFox route for sure. I love the plane. It's certainly part of why I chose the Badland aircraft. They are so similar in design. I used to love the Velocity canard kit and always wanted one of them. Then I saw STOL aircraft. I still love canard aircraft and especially the Velocity, but STOL is the way to go now. With the F5 having slightly longer wings than all the other Badland aircraft, I'm hoping it will fly similar (especially in take off and landing) like a Kitfox.

I hope you'll still stick around the forum and let us know and see (future pictures please) when you get your plane and of many adventures!

Todd

Will do, I've still got a lot of research to get done and a list to check off. As far as all the red tape is concerned it can't be any worse than filing taxes..... HA

Stormin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 6:11 pm Will do, I've still got a lot of research to get done and a list to check off. As far as all the red tape is concerned it can't be any worse than filing taxes..... HA

I was so sick of that stuff I had a public accountant do it for me

I don't think anything is worse than filing taxes. At least not that I have experienced to date. Haha

Okay, not entirely true, but it definitely sucks!