Badland Part 103 Pilots and Builders Forum

Chris got in touch with Peer and I last night. Chris has been re-working and updating the BadlandAircraft.com website. It's really looking great and gives the potential customer more information on what they are going to spend to get what they want. I expect this part of the website will grow over time. One of the big things about Chris and Badland Aircraft is that he offers customization to the extreme. You really get to design your own Badland aircraft. This of course means that the end price can range all over the place. Having the ability to pick what you want and see what it's going to cost you is great. It allows someone who wants a Badland aircraft to design something they can afford, and leave out things they can add or update later. The website really looks great. There are always a few bugs or corrections to be made, and Chris is working on those issues, but overall the website is looking great. Go take a look if you have time: https://BadlandAircraft.com

Also, on the more exciting side of the work with Chris last night, we got to talking about the popularity of the Badland Aircraft line of UL's along with the change that the three of us have seen in the perception of UL's. Over the last 5+ years, I've seen a slow but steady change in the attitude towards ultralight aircraft and even the pilots of this class of aircraft. It's true, there still are those that don't see UL's as "real" aircraft. That's their failure to understand ultralights and those who fly them. We all agreed, this negative attitude has and continues to change in the positive direction.

Another part of that conversation was, and this is specifically for me, Chris mentioned that the second part of the order of Titanium for my F5 is scheduled to arrive in a couple of weeks! Yahoo! I'm trying hard not to get too excited about this. There are many things that can delay the shipment. However, I am so looking forward to the final call from Chris sometime later this year to come up north and get my F5 kit. For Badland Aircraft and all of the current and future Badland aircraft owners, I'll be trying hard to do a full build video, start to finish, covering page by page of the build from the manual. Included will be all issues and how they were resolved, along with some things outside of the standard Badland builds. I'm not exactly sure, but I think my F5 will be the first Badland to use a Hirth F23 engine. I also plan on getting some wing cuffs made to improve STOL and slow flight capability. The build will be an adventure to show that we who fly UL's are not as limited as some might believe. I'm looking forward to getting the build started.

Todd

Congrats on getting closer.

The new website looks good, and has a nice collection of links for videos and such. One thing I noticed immediately is what appears to be a big price reduction for the kit I ordered. I couldn't find the nice order form that listed what items were included in each kit, so maybe things like powder coating aren't included like they used to be for the F2 kit. The F2 kit was $18k, plus another $1200 for the QB wings for a total of $19,200. Now they list an F2 QB package for $15,700. That's a big difference, which is good for new buyers. I'd hope that Chris is going to offer those savings for the people who are still waiting. Maybe throw in the CF ribs

13brv3 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:09 am Congrats on getting closer.

The new website looks good, and has a nice collection of links for videos and such. One thing I noticed immediately is what appears to be a big price reduction for the kit I ordered. I couldn't find the nice order form that listed what items were included in each kit, so maybe things like powder coating aren't included like they used to be for the F2 kit. The F2 kit was $18k, plus another $1200 for the QB wings for a total of $19,200. Now they list an F2 QB package for $15,700. That's a big difference, which is good for new buyers. I'd hope that Chris is going to offer those savings for the people who are still waiting. Maybe throw in the CF ribs

Check with Chris Rusty. I have a feeling you're correct in that your F2 kit is on the old order system, which includes features and options not available in the new order system or not available unless selected on the online order form. In the older order system, the F1~F5 were actually different models of Badland aircraft, and came stock with different features. There were upgrades to these different models, but they were difficult to figure out, and I think the changes were only available on the paper order form (including additional pricing). Now, the F1~F5 stands more for completeness of the kit or build. The higher the F#, the more will be completed by Chris and his crew, shortening build time for the customer. I'm sure Chris can explain the difference in pricing. My thinking is you're actually going to get more on your F2 than the new ordering system offers.

I can also see why he would want to do something like this, reducing the options available. That cuts his required inventory and ordering costs by making the F1~F5 more similar to each other. Those of us who have orders already submitted, most likely are going to get more unique Badland aircraft than what he's offering now. Not to say the new ones are less in performance or anything, but they most likely will be fewer options. Doing this will also cut factory build time. Don't worry though, just give Chris a call and talk to him.

Todd

The old price of the F1 was $16,105, and the new price is $13,090. The list of included items looks almost identical, so it just seems like a $3k price reduction. Good on him for lowing the price if that's what happened, but if there's no significant change in what's included, I won't be happy about paying the higher price. I'll definitely ask.

Yep, I agree, and I think a chat with him will resolve the question about the price change and how it affects you. I do like the CF ribs though!

Todd

Congratulations Todd! That certainly is great news! I look forward to seeing your build process... and meeting you in the air!
Chris had also asked me a couple nights ago to look over the new website; besides looking more modern with a "fresher" look, the first thing I too noticed was the new models. My initial impression was that the new nomenclature will make ordering, and the subsequent production, more efficient and less cumbersome. When I spoke with Chris yesterday he confirmed my thoughts.

Rusty, I would not hesitate to speak directly with Chris about the differences in the old vs new packages. As an example, my plane "was/is" an F3 Speed (Ready to Fly/factory build), that is now classified as an F4 Flyer. So, there is not a direct correlation from the previous F2 and the new F2 package. As Todd alluded to, the new F Series nomenclatures refer to the level build from the factory. In the past when I asked Chris about the differences in the old nomenclature, I got the feeling that he frequently installed upgrades (at his expense) in order to provide a better quality product. Under the old nomenclature, the carbon fiber panel and larger tires/wheels options that are on my plane were part of the old F4 Monster package.
The point is, I wouldn't try to make a one-to-one direct correlation between packages. As is always the best policy, speak directly with Chris- and he will be able to provide the specifics as it relates to your Badland.
Having been a entrepreneur/business owner for 30+ years, I understand the growing pains that are associated with rebranding. Not only the BA F-series product line, but the build manual, and the website all at the same time. Ugh! I don't know how Chris keeps all of the balls in the air. In the long run, it will be better for all us as Badland Aircraft leads the way in the industry with the "baddest" ultralight airplane on the market.

I am excited to seeing all of the future projects from you Badland builders!

broughtonkicks wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 3:56 pm Congratulations Todd! That certainly is great news! I look forward to seeing your build process... and meeting you in the air!
Chris had also asked me a couple nights ago to look over the new website; besides looking more modern with a "fresher" look, the first thing I too noticed was the new models. My initial impression was that the new nomenclature will make ordering, and the subsequent production, more efficient and less cumbersome. When I spoke with Chris yesterday he confirmed my thoughts.

Thank you sir, I'm really looking forward to getting this build going. My only issue is, you set a really high bar for me to reach/meet - you do have the best looking Badland of all of them! I'm going to enjoy doing the step by step build videos and certainly look forward to meeting in the air.

I came to the same conclusion as you did about the changes Chris made to the website. I think it's going to help the customers make better choices as well as helping him and his two employees speed up the build process. Your advice was also good - best to go right to the source and get some answers. Chris has always been straight and the most customer accommodating of anyone I know.

Thanks again buddy!

Todd

I’m not close enough to pulling the trigger to feel comfortable bugging Chris. Can anyone explain the difference between RTF and Almost RTF? I don’t have a space to build, but if the Almost version requires a minimal number of hours to complete I’m open to kicking cars out of the garage for a time.

From what I have seen, RTF means add fuel to the tank, check the air in the tires and go fly.

Of course, there will need to be some assembly on your end unless you are Chris' next door neighbor.

The big task many kitplane builders dread/avoid is the fabric covering process.

There are products that are reasonably priced and the solvents are water based as well. NO toxic fumes, easy soap and water clean up.

Tons of how-to videos from both individuals and product manufacturer produced.

If you don/t have a big living room or a 1 car garage at home, then you can easily do the whole project in a 10x20 mini-storage facility if you have the following:

1. An assortment of cordless power tools

2. A portable 120v supply to run your coffee maker and LED overhead lights and of course your radio.
( I have used a screw in light bulb socket adapter to run a 2-prong 120v cord in a unit I rented a long time ago to paint a motorcycle. Of course
not all units have an older style overhead light with a pull chain for on-off switch. Look around your area.)

3. A reason to turn off the TV, get off the couch and go build your own awesome airplane. There are plenty of people here to help when you get
bogged down and Chris is always just a phone call away. I find that when I call him about a part or question, I feel much more enthusiastic to finish my plane. I wish I could be as cheerful and positive as he is! Just talking to him gets me back on track and wanting to get my plane in the air soon.

So, the question really boils down to this, HOW BAD DO YOU WANT TO FLY YOUR OWN BADLAND 103?

You can do this man !!!!

Funny that Bruce mentions the covering being the part of the build most people dread or try to avoid. I was guilty as charged, but once I got started on the covering and became more comfortable with it, it became one of the favorite parts of the build. It also didn't require all that much space to do so; I did the tailfeathers in the living room and the wings and fuselage in the garage. I have a pretty small garage (it claims to be a two car but it's close to 1.5) but managed to get it done.

I was actually able to leave my one car that is always in the garage in place while working...(granted, it's an Austin Healey Sprite, but still).

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:37 pm 3. A reason to turn off the TV, get off the couch and go build your own awesome airplane. There are plenty of people here to help when you get
bogged down and Chris is always just a phone call away. I find that when I call him about a part or question, I feel much more enthusiastic to finish my plane. I wish I could be as cheerful and positive as he is! Just talking to him gets me back on track and wanting to get my plane in the air soon.

Absolutely correct, don't hesitate to call Chris. I think he actually likes to talk about and help builders put their kits together more than anything else. You'll find that he almost always has time to chat, and will chat for a while if you let him As Bruce mentions, he really is a motivator. I think he'd make an excellent teacher, encouraging a lot to show people that this is well within their skill set. It just takes a few tries sometimes to get things right. And again, as Bruce mentions, there's plenty of help right here. The forum even has a Zoom page so if we need to show you how to do something, we can schedule an online session and lend a hand (visually that is). After all, when one person asks "how", the discussion usually helps others in the future who have the same questions.

Todd