Badland Part 103 Pilots and Builders Forum

So earlier I had asked if anybody had some info on the new style aluminum part that is the connection from the control stick for lateral movement
(ROLL- AILERONS) from the control stick pivot to the flaperon bellcrank.

(FYI - a bellcrank is typically used to get one motion to produce one or two motions in opposite directions, so one stick movement to the LEFT will cause the left aileron cable to push the left aileron UP (dropping the left wing) and the right aileron cable to pull the right aileron down, lifting the right wing, hence the two produce roll to the left for your left stick control input you applied)

I want to remove a bit of the material to be able to get the flaperon bellcrank neutral position 100% inline with the same physical plane as the wing spars. When I held the control stick centered (from L to R) there was some offset at the bellcrank arms and I was out of room to screw in the control rod bearings any more. I needed to remove about 3-5 mm from the aluminum to be able to be able to screw the rod end bearing threads a few more turns to get to my neutral setting. ( I know I could have done this at control the cable ends for the ailerons but wanted equal stick travel for both L and R, since I am picky and probably overthinking this anyhow!) I think the newly designed hex part might be a tad bit longer than the round part it is replacing from earlier kits. The new hex part is beefy enough to hold up an army tank!

Here's what I know so far.

1. I screwed the rod ends all the way and the internal threads are plenty deep to allow me to trim some metal off the ends. I tested both sides.

2. The 1mm slot cut into one side of the hex part is most likely a marking method to indicate the set of threads inside that end are REVERSE THREAD
My plan is to remove just a little aluminum at a time, probably just with a course file, then test fit until I am satisfied. If I need to remove more than 3 mm, I will just switch to the other side and remove some from there to until I get the result I want. I figure splitting the location of where I remove metal will prevent me from taking all of the material away from one side only and compromising the thread contact for the control rod end bearing there. Really, I am not taking off that much in the end.

I need to be careful and not ruin the threads as I remove material. Another option is for me to install a expendable screw with the same thread size into the piece 1st, then cut with a hacksaw until the aluminum is cut, then back out my sacrificial screw to clean out or chase the threads of any debris or damage from the cutting process. The soft aluminum will go 1st before I saw through the entire bolt, just rotate the part to cut through all sides.

QUESTION: So can any Badland pilot actively flying their 103 tell me how much stick movement (at the top of the stick) you think you are doing for typical flying like banked turns or how much back stick for your landing flare for example. I be its not as much as I think.

In most every aircraft that I've ever flown, in a normal 45 deg bank, nose up or nose down or combination, the respective control surface will only move an inch or less. But you still need the prescribed amount of movement (full) for those pucker moments as in landing in a crosswind, a gust, etc. And if you fly in the mountains like I do, a full box of Depends and a dozen of those little pine tree air fresheners.

Not much going on this week. Waiting for a warm day with no rain to paint a few items such as rudder pedals, flaperon handle, brake pedals and assorted small parts including control bellcranks. I am using Rustoleum grey automotive primer first followed by a few coat of color on top.

Probably add some type of light lube to the inside of any pivots where the part will rotate/pivot on a steel bushing since I will not be able to protect the inside areas with paint anyhow.

I will do a short vinegar soak until all the surface rust is gone, then a quick dip in baking soda solution, then a fresh water rinse, then a dry off with compressed air and a paper towel. Goal is to remove rust and apply at least some primer ASAP to prevent flash rust from popping up in 30 minutes after I just got through removing any surface rust. I have used the vinegar trick before to remove rust from a steel motorcycle gas tank and after 3 days, the inside of the tank was shiny bare steel. The used vinegar I disposed of was almost dark red-brown in color with all the oxides floating in it.

I prefer the soak method as opposed to sanding with emory cloth, and you cant get into all the nooks and crannies with sanding anyhow.

Don't just let the parts sit in the vinegar bath the whole time, it needs to be agitated now and then for best results in less time.

You guys in Arizona and California don't know what humidity in Mississippi does to bare steel in a day! I might as well live next to the the ocean with big surf and salt spray in the air. I buy a lot of WD-40 for sure.

Hope everyone is doing good and looking forward to enjoying some family time at Christmas.

Ha! I do sometimes count my blessings in regards to the dry climate in Cali. It's definitely much kinder to metals than where you are at.

I've used the vinegar bath trick to clean the rust out of coolant passages in an iron block (my 67 Sprite). It's impressive to say the least.

Thanks for the vinegar tip. I've never used it, always used some expensive stuff I can't pronounce because in A&P school (a long long time ago) they said use this.

Yes! Thank you for posting this! By January the 5th I'll be living next to two oceans... the Gulf on the west and Atlantic on the east! I think some molly lube would work well once the metal it cleaned off. I used to put the metal items in the sun to open the pores of the metal, then put the lube on and let the parts cool, re-lube and done. This helps get the lubricant deep into the metal surface. We used to do this on our bicycles and the neighbor who rebuilt engines in his driveway down the street did it to the parts he used that were exposed to the elements (yes I'm a hick from the sticks...raised in the poorest county in California). I had forgotten about this until reading your post. I hope to be assembling my F5 soon.

Prep and Prime Day - got a break in the weather today so I cleaned off the surface rust from the brake and rudder pedals and the small tubular bushings for the flaperon cable holders. I did the vinegar treatment and sped up the results by also scrubbing with a wire brush too.
(stainless steel bristles only!!!)
I then used fine 220 grit to remove the rust from the rudder. It was stored in my open shop for a while and had a good bit of rust on it. There is also a blackish film appearance on some of the chromoly parts that might be something applied to the metal tubing during the manufacturing process. Since it was still cold I used an old electric quartz heater to warm up the work area, metal parts and even warmed up the spray can of primer too. Left the heater on afterwards to help cure the primer better. That heater is over 40 years old and is my secret weapon for winter painting and fiberglass projects.

I used Rustoleum Automotive Grey primer and applied 3 coats. I plan to top coat all my primered parts with spray enamel in the spring. I think I will use a glossy top coat to help the Oratex Glue bond better. Just trying to keep the rust away for now.

Don't feel like I am getting much done right now but at least I am trying to do a few smaller items every week. Just keep plugging away at it.

Yesterday, I organized all the assorted bags or various rivets that were supplied with my kit. There are a lot of rivets! I remember when I used to think a rivet was just a plain ole' rivet, and all that was different was size and length. Some of the rivets are very special and have a lot of tensile/shear strength for critical areas such as main spar bracket mounts for the lift struts. Those are kind of important parts to keep attached to your plane.

Hope everyone had a good Christmas holiday.

Building an airplane is just building a bunch of small parts. And then just putting them together. Just keep plugging away, you will arrive one day!

So today was a non-work day on the build. The Challenger ultralight that was temporarily parked in the hangar finally got a hangar spot and so it left my hangar a few days ago. Today it was replaced by the new plane that I will share the hangar with. It is a brand new Aerolite 103 with the 45hp MZ 2-cylinder powerplant with a 3 bladed prop. Real nice guy owns it and I am comfortable sharing the space with him too.
In fact the guy who owns the Challenger was the ferry pilot for the Aerolite this afternoon . He had to fly it from a nearby airport about 25 miles away. It was pretty cold with a headwind on top of that. After that he took me up for a flight in his "BIG" plane which is an older Cessna 172 that is in mint condition.

After a few flight exercises like some steep turns he let me fly for quite a while. We cruised up to 120 kts at one point. We then flew over his private grass strip near his town but did not land there. Its a pretty tight spot amongst a lot of tall pine trees. Its a nice plane and I really had no control problems other than chasing the compass heading, turning left to get the compass heading I needed when I should have turned right. I have done the same task in a sailboat before but that was with a wooden tiller in my hand behind me. I managed to get a grasp of coordinated turns. I heard a saying long time ago "Step On the Ball" for turn-slip indicator/ We then did a 180 and set up for a landing approach. And, NO, I did not land the plane today. Too bad this guy is not a CFI. I learned a lot today and am grateful to him.

I cant wait to finally add some throttle and take off with the F2 for the 1st time.

I want to wish everyone a Happy New Year and happy landings!

That sounds like a really super day Bruce. The other pilot does sound like a really nice hanger mate. I'm always a little skittish about sharing space with others for the fear they won't keep their hands to themselves. However it sounds very much like that's not going to be an issue at all. I can hardly wait to get to Florida and get my fight training going and get into the air. I look forward to the days ahead where I can go fly and enjoy the adventures small and large. Be safe and have a Happy New Year's as well.

Todd

P.S. Very envious of that white Badland frame setting there!

Todd, have you heard anything about the flying training provided by an outfit called M-Squared? They are next door from your new spot in Florida.

They are close by in Alabama.

http://msquaredaircraft.com/flighttraining.html

They even sell a few ultralights too, sailcloth and aluminum tubing variety. The smaller one is single seater with the F33 single cylinder Hirth for power.

I know I need to get some legit training. The Cessna I flew today cant't be anything like flying my F2, can it????

We landed today at about the same speed of my F2 in a dive !!!! Ha Ha

And don't be jealous of the white fuselage in the picture, I can buy a few cans of titanium spray paint from Amazon and have the fuselage at your new place in Florida in a week.

What color do you want your rudder/brake pedals?

Just be sure to accidentally leave your bathroom scale behind in Texas when you head east. You can trust me!

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:34 pm Todd, have you heard anything about the flying training provided by an outfit called M-Squared? They are next door from your new spot in Florida.

They are close by in Alabama.

http://msquaredaircraft.com/flighttraining.html

They even sell a few ultralights too, sailcloth and aluminum tubing variety. The smaller one is single seater with the F33 single cylinder Hirth for power.

I know I need to get some legit training. The Cessna I flew today cant't be anything like flying my F2, can it????

We landed today at about the same speed of my F2 in a dive !!!! Ha Ha

I just took a look at the website. Looks very promising. I see the Breese is what they train/fly in. That's about as close to a single seat ultralight as anyone can get. If Holladay Aviation no longer has their Breese once I get to Florida, I may end up going to Alabama! Thanks for the pointer. We need more training businesses like this.

As for the Cessna, yes, much of it is applicable. The big difference I've noticed is in landing. Ultralight's being high drag don't float in ground effect. I can take a Cessna, and head to the runway, get into ground effect and the thing will float and float and float if the flaps aren't down. An ultralight on the other hand, once power is off, they have a tendency to drop pretty quickly. However, that is a normal ultralight. I'm not sure if the Badland and similar ultralights float in ground effect like a Cessna or regular full size aircraft. Mountain Cat may be able to offer some information on that. He's flown several aircraft similar to the Badland series.

Coordinated turns, gaining/losing altitude with power, and much of the rest is pretty much the same. Well, while a Cessna is bumpy in rough air, an ultralight gets bounced around even more. Then there's ground school. Pretty much everything LSA is applicable to ultralights. The big difference is where we can fly/land/take off. Other than that, radio procedures, landing patterns (with a caveat), and most other things are applicable. The caveat concerning landings actually applies to all aircraft. The larger (or faster) the aircraft, the bigger their pattern for landing normally is. In fact, if you can get your hands on the EAA's Sport Aviation magazine for January 2024, read the article in Ultralight World (Page 88). The article covers pattern flight for ultralight and LSA aircraft, and why the pattern is slightly different. It's a good article.

Peer is currently training in a Cessna, and what he's learning will be applicable to his F2 to a good degree. Take my comments as a general reference though as far as flying an ultralight. I've not yet flown an ultralight except in my simulator. I have flown Cessna's in the past, and the simulator is remarkably close to what I recall from real flight. The Solo 103 in my simulator is modeled after the real Solo 103, so I'm going with the aerodynamics are also similar. Truth be told, you can have two identical Cessna's setting side by side, and they will fly slightly differently from each other, but, it's nothing major. If you get the chance to go up in that Cessna a few more times, by all means do it. Any exposure to flight is going to give you a step up with learning the skills of aviation.

Todd

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:42 pm And don't be jealous of the white fuselage in the picture, I can buy a few cans of titanium spray paint from Amazon and have the fuselage at your new place in Florida in a week.

What color do you want your rudder/brake pedals?

Just be sure to accidentally leave your bathroom scale behind in Texas when you head east. You can trust me!

So funny, and I trust everyone explicitly

I can just see it on the ramp with the FAA inspector - What do you mean my ultralight weighs in at 279Lbs, it's titanium........isn't it?

Todd

Being at the correct airspeed will stop most of the floating. Of course, landing a tail wheel bird, correct airspeed is critical anyway. In an ultralight, keeping some power on will be necessary. Wind and gust will make things more interesting. My challenger would float like a feather if you was even 5 mph over correct airspeed. The Badland has a high lift wing so it will fly when other birds are done and the light weight combined with the high lift wing will let it do things most only think about. A few hours of basic UL training will let you do some incredible things with the Badlands. Most Cessna pilots still require UL training. The Badland/SR/Kitfox Lite are just fast enough to just barely kill you if you get sloppy. Learn to fly it well!

I was figuring on the F5 flying closer to a Cessna than other ultralights, being that the F5 has the largest wing of all the Badland series. I'll confirm if this is true someday. Of course those big fat wings also create a lot of drag. I plan on testing VG's, fences and winglets to see what effects they have on such a light aircraft. Slats also come to mind. The latest ones I saw are for Cubs, increasing speed at cruise RPM by 4 to 5 knots while reducing stall by 5 knots. Not a bad improvement. Of course we are limited by CAS in level flight at sea level, so that'll also need to be factored in. The most important part is having a testing process that won't get me killed. That would be no fun at all. I need a plane first. Once in Florida I'll have to to Chris and see where he's at with my kit.

Todd

I plan on installing VG's on my SR1. But I want to fly it a few hours first so I'll know any improvement gained. I also plan on putting wingtip fences on it. Slats, I am unsure about. Getting the stall speed around 30 or less is my goal. A light Badlands is probably already there. Slats would complicate things a bit more and most likely no improvement on a Badlands. If one wants to fly slower than 25-30 mph, buy a helicopter.

Slower than 30? How did you know I wanted a reverse gear in a 25~30 mph headwind?

Actually I was looking at the other end since the Cub increased speed at the same RPM....reducing fuel burn is of interest.

A lot of my plans ballance on how well the plane performs with the Thumpair. So far that's looking really promising.

One of the most important tips for improving speed is airfoils over the struts. Round tubing is very drag inducing. I don't know if Chris has it, but U-Flyit does. ABS plastic is light, but wood corner molding, or 2 strips of chair molding run thru a sander works good with a little router work. The leading edge of the strut isn't an issue, the trailing edge is. On my challenger it added approx 7-10 mph.

Yeah, I know the round profile of the lift struts will be "Draggy" I like your idea of adding some material and creating a pseudo airfoil shape. I am always tinkering with pink foam sheets. Same material as my flaperon airfoils from Chris. You could glue your foam as rectangular strips to the tubing, sand to desired shape since the rigid tubing will hold the foam firmly to manipulate it. Then apply some lightweight glass cloth to get the strength. If you use epoxy, the resin wont attack the pink foam like fiberglass resin would. I like epoxy, its easier to mix and less critical on mixing ratios. I had a
project fail where I screwed up and my polyester resin never "Kicked" and I had to remove about 3 square yards of sticky goo and clean up a huge mess to get my project back on track. I probably threw away $200 of material that day, and spent another $50 on Acetone. I bet I invented 12 new swear words that day.

You could apply some lightweight filler on top of the glass, sand it super slick, apply your color and I bet it would add no more than 8 -10 ounces to the strut when finished. Just be sure to weigh them and make sure all 4 struts weigh the same when installed. I think the weight gain will be negated by better power off glide performance too.

It would be a fun project you could knock out in 2 weekends.

I know they sell ready made solutions but what fun is that??????

It is stuff like this that has me looking forward to goofing around in experimental aviation. Lots of room for creative solutions.

Foam is a good solution and cheap. Some cover the finished product with fabric which is a more finished look. Probably from scrap fabric instead of discarding it. Only important item is to make both trailing edges the same degrees otherwise it could cause what one would think as a wing heavy side but its just the little airfoil not set correct. We won't discuss how I know!

I bet you could shape the foam around the back of the strut and then cover the whole deal with Oratex. Its both strong AND light. Two birds with one stone.

And Bruce, funny thing, the compass is the same thing I am struggling with. But I had the same issue when sailing.

Work on the plane OR trailer has come to a stop for me until next year I fear (haha)...a little Covid slowing me down for now. But Happy New Year to you all!

Save your pennies, (after building an airplane you don't have any nickels) for a vertical card compass ($249) from LEAF. It solves most of the wet compass problems. Or (cheaper method) sit in a swivel chair with your compass on a plate on your knees. Swivel different directions until you get yourself familiar with which way to turn to different directions. Caution, do not try if you've had a few cold ones.

I seem to be flying everyone else's plane but mine !!!!!

So today the owner of the bright green Aerolite 103 that shares a hangar with me, called me up to go flying today.

Gorgeous day, light wind and only about 50 degrees.

I did not fly the aerolite, instead he brought his "OTHER" plane to the airport where my hangar is and taxied right up to the hangar door and picked me up.

His other plane is a really nice Cirrus SR20 - four seater with all the blinged out instruments and controls.

After we took off, he flew a while until we leveled off at 2500 feet, then he gave me control.

I flew from the right seat so my right wrist did all the work as it is a side stick (pistol grip) control setup.

It was very comfortable to fly and I flew for almost 45 minutes. We even had to switch fuel tanks (left to right to left) twice when the
flight computer prompted us to do so. I was surprised at how little effort was required to get the plane to bank a good bit.

We cruised around at about 120 - 135 kts

I had to navigate with his glass panel displays. We even were able to monitor other nearby traffic on a separate screen.

This plane is nothing like my Badland F2, but I did at least learn the traffic pattern at the local airport and did do a lot of turns while maintaining a constant altitude.

This guy is a really nice guy and worked super hard his whole life to get his financial situation able to buy expensive toys. Not a jerk bragging about all his wealth either.

As for me, I am still looking around for some local training in something slower and more like my plane, but anything I find is at least 90 miles away
and is more like a Cessna 150 or 172 anyhow.

The local EAA chapter has a 2 seater but there are some issues with getting lessons there. (Not really sure what's up with that situation)

I think I will just get Todd to teach me. After all, he will have a lot of Badland flight hours under his belt after he flies his F5 from Truman MN to Florida!

There ARE nice guys out there in aviation. And when you get really into the UL crowd, there are even more. Last time I went to Sun-N-Fun, I walked the high dollar line and all the guys were talking about how long and the cost to build. Went to the farm (UL area) and the ultralight guys were just gabbing and having fun. Most of all, trying to help other guys. A completely relaxed and laid back group.

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:36 pm It was very comfortable to fly and I flew for almost 45 minutes. We even had to switch fuel tanks (left to right to left) twice when the
flight computer prompted us to do so. I was surprised at how little effort was required to get the plane to bank a good bit.

This is why I think some commercial pilots get into trouble when flying an ultralight, STOL or older Cub or similar. They treat them like that 737, 747, 777 or other that they flew commercially, not realizing, these planes aren't going to keep them from making mistakes. The high-end private aircraft are similar, making them easier to fly and truly enjoy. I'm not bashing commercial pilots or this type of aircraft. The aircraft are truly amazing what they can do today. This isn't far from what I'm trying to demonstrate with my F5, just what todays technology can do. It's just that we can't allow ourselves to become complacent with what the technology does for us. It's like way back in 1999 when I was taking lessons. I had purchased one of the first hand held GPS units available for private aviation. During a flight with my CFI, he grabbed it out of my hand and said "What now?" I pulled out the sectional and located us by landmarks. Got to know and practice the basics, but enjoy all that technology at the same time.

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:36 pm This plane is nothing like my Badland F2, but I did at least learn the traffic pattern at the local airport and did do a lot of turns while maintaining a constant altitude.

You see, you are learning things that are applicable to your F2! Even if not directly applicable, knowing what the other guys has to do (or may do) is a plus in itself!

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:36 pm This guy is a really nice guy and worked super hard his whole life to get his financial situation able to buy expensive toys. Not a jerk bragging about all his wealth either.

It's great finding people like this.

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:36 pm As for me, I am still looking around for some local training in something slower and more like my plane, but anything I find is at least 90 miles away
and is more like a Cessna 150 or 172 anyhow.

I got to speak with Dana at Holladay Aviation on Saturday. It looks like my route is going to be the Cessna 152 or 172 route as well. The Breese is up for sale and they seem not to want to train in it at this time. For specific ultralight training Dana is referring me to two other instructors.

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:36 pm The local EAA chapter has a 2 seater but there are some issues with getting lessons there. (Not really sure what's up with that situation)

That's one of the reasons I want to show just what a modern ultralight can do. We need more EAA support of Ultralight's.

Bruce_L wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:36 pm I think I will just get Todd to teach me. After all, he will have a lot of Badland flight hours under his belt after he flies his F5 from Truman MN to Florida!

Death wish or a gambling man?

Todd

Mountain Cat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:24 pm There ARE nice guys out there in aviation. And when you get really into the UL crowd, there are even more. Last time I went to Sun-N-Fun, I walked the high dollar line and all the guys were talking about how long and the cost to build. Went to the farm (UL area) and the ultralight guys were just gabbing and having fun. Most of all, trying to help other guys. A completely relaxed and laid back group.

I like the sound of that! The latter part I mean. I've worked way too long, it's time to relax and enjoy life with like-minded pilots.

So now the list of do not forget items for the flight from Truman MN to Florida goes like this:

1. Old Timey 1990's handheld GPS
2. AA batteries for item one
3. Mittens
4. D cell batteries for old timey electric heated mittens (if applicable)

Enjoy your flight!

Don't forget a watch, or better yet a calendar.

Mountain Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:30 pm Don't forget a watch, or better yet a calendar.

I thought I would make a sun dial and use it so I wouldn't need batteries